IB/PE also prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. Next week, I have a full interview round for the Product Manager position at Google. Ummwhat? Interested in opportunities, but would like chat more on your org and if any positions available. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with your IB modeling skills, Not at all. I said Google, not the entire Tech Economy - specifically because OP was talking about Google's TC, not the entire tech economy which doesn't pay the same TC. If progression is you goal you need to look at opportunities. People can't handle that they made the wrong career choice. Experience Seeker. Conflict arises if either of you competes for recognition. It's pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too? Unlike swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done. I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. I am seeing lot of Product Owner roles in market. Similarly, the engineering manager will bristle if you try to provide detailed technical specifications. Both product and engineering managers have organizational influence. are comparatively very easy to obtain. Value Stream: Product Managers vs Technical Program Managers. After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. I can see levels difference. Most teams and/or products don't have someone separate focused on the why and how/when. Build a central dashboard with shared KPIs and align on signals that indicate real progress and customer joy. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. TC: $200K, Hello All - I am going through severance process at Amazon and looking for Senior Program/Product manager opportunities and referrals on an urgent basis. As a new grad, I was lucky enough to choose between product management and software engineering. Keep in mind that careers arent linear. For more information, please refer to our Privacy Policy. Not enough SWEs. Hopefully, you pick the job thats right for you and have a blast doing it! Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. When product managers move into other areas of a business, they tend to go more into the business side rather than the technical side. Do you see what I'm getting at here? All Rights Reserved. Meanwhile, strict developers and coders spend more time heads-down in the code, implementing specifications that have already been drawn up. Can ya'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management. why bother? Also which career p. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. Heard of lack of WLB, unclear responsibilities, and too many meetings. LinearB is a tool that empowers your team to do exactly this. Which companies pay their EM/PM almost similar? The domain knowledge of a product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and general. I have 5 YOE . Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. 95 percent of them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc. Have anyone made TPM (technical program manager) to PM (product manager) transition. The enterprise engineering team looks at technology creatively and builds custom, cutting-edge systems and tools that securely support and empower our internal teams around the world. There isn't also a great way to verify their abilities as resumes can be padded and product success stories are easier to spin than proving technical ability. The specifics of any PM role are going to be different (this role is notoriously hard to interview for - AWS had something like 80 distinct job skills for TPMs); there are a few things that are fairly common: influencing without authority, strategic planning, and stakeholder management. IB/PEalso prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. We use this information in order to improve and customize your browsing experience and for analytics and metrics about our visitors both on this website and other media. Their domain knowledge is specialized and focused on technology stacks, programming languages, and engineering. Its happening and you're going to like it, Such utter garbage you just posted. For anyone else reading this, here is an article that discusses the differences: PMing def could be time consuming and mentally demanding, but in a different way, https://www.productplan.com/learn/product-management-vs-program-management/. ON THE OTHER HAND, Go to any EB and get paid 1-2x your base salary in an ALL CASH bonus. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value). I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. Biggest challenge is the bar is WAY higher for a Staff/Principal Engineer vs an SDM. Granted 40-60hrs beats finance. You cannot be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of being an entrepreneur. And do you know what's Apple's PM interview process? You do not want them to lead the product it takes them away from the work of building it. The best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and well-socialized. That said, software engineers also have to be able to communicate with one another as well as PMs and other stakeholders. Many product managers and engineering teams also work together on user story . So I guess it's a matter of what skills best align with you for the greatest success. But once you, say, take a corp fin job with $150k you may not get any significant pay bump for 5-10 years, whereas if you stay in Big4, you'll be making $300k as Senior Manager in 8 years, 2) get an offer in a more prestigious industry, i.e. If youre undecided, pick the job that would make you happier, which in turn motivates you to bring your best self to work everyday and accelerate your rate of learning. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. Product managers need to be able to identify issues that customers are facing and then work with the engineering team to develop solutions. Go to company page But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. Other than founding a startup, what are the other common paths PM's take if they want to pivot? I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. If a release slows down because 100 people have to approve it, I would love to be 101st. Eng, Go to company page Anything else that I missed? That's why you come on WSO every other day to post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives. Getting a job at Google is much harder than getting a job at a. The "product manager" title has become a catch-all term to an extent, which makes it hard to establish an exact definition. After all, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg and Larry Page were all at Goldman Sachs before starting their companies.ohhwait. Analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage. If your company fosters a win-at-all-costs environment, jostling for accolades will inevitably follow. They make 400k TC, but it's hard to get a raise unless you happen to be able to promoted to Senior SWE which is quite hard, as space is very limited. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. Happy to guide aspiring Product Managers. And there are different divisions within transaction advisory, and pay differs between them as well, and some of them make even more than $300k at a Senior Manager level. Yes, that's true they are different roles; however, I've found that the responsibilities bleed across more often than not. #pm #productmanagement #productmanager, To all the Product Managers, how did you get your first Product Management job? Gain professional experience. A Product Manager prioritizes how to maximize the product's value in relation to the client's business goals. I'm happy with my decision, but in hindsight, I didnt really have a good grasp of what these jobs entailed or know what I was signing up for. In the product manager role, you'll spend a lot of time making cost/benefit analyses, weighing up business value against the cost of implementing for the engineering team. I have the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to the UK. #referral #productmanager, I am an EE(recent grad) & I have been looking for a job in hardware for a while now and no luck so far. Most SDEs hate PMs. At other companies, product managers are more like project managers. Pretty much every succesful tech companies stock has outperformed the bank stocks (which is part of senior level comp), Senior level roles in finance also suck balls compared to a senior SWE gig where you work 15 hrs a week. Korean American. The tech boom is just a blip amongst the companies of history. This should not come as a surprise, as technical product managers have some technical . Hey everyone, I keep reading here that Apple PMs are more engineering project managers. However, they have different sets of activities. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance and you're set. SDEs get higher RSUs so they stay longer. Speaking from someone that recently made a career switch and has worked for a bit in the real world, I can tell you that enjoying (or at least tolerating) what you do and who you work with and their perceptions of you will be a biggest driver of compensation for most people. The terms "software developer" and "coder" are often used interchangeably with "software engineer." You have an abundance of data at your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data. Google How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Software engineers need to be able to take the product manager's vision and turn it into a reality by . Can anyone please refer me? LinearB may send you email occasionally about how you can optimize productivity. Doesn't make me an expert, but I figured I'd chime in. The details vary but the essence is the same. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. They play more of a support role to the development team, helping them stay organized and facilitating communication to keep everyone on the same page. Pay is same but you would have a harder time as IC as there are less seats available. In other words, an engineers has to be able to operate in a team. Google commonly refers to RSU as GSU (Google Stock Unit). #Long term success. A lot of software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects. 4. Banking and tech are very different. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers. Resume Review. Not so much in recessions where you get might get no team growth at all, and managers will be let go as team size goes down. Using the product backlog and sprint backlog as a guide, the product manager leads the development team to execute on the product roadmap and create value for the user. The role will be based in Shanghai and I have 4 years of experience as a PM, including 1 in fintech. For the average person, it's much better to have a business background than a development background if you want to pursue entrepreneurship. It doesn't have much depth to it. Any cons? Do you know what to expect in a non-tech interview? WLB depends. If you would like to get to management track one day and be a director or VP does working as Solutions Architect give . You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Companies really want to hire PMs with past PM experience, so jobs #2, 3, etc. I am an engineer who transitioned to Product Management so I am mor. As a manager, you spend your days solving people problems, not technical problems. Earn a bachelor's degree. Criteria- Culture, career growth, compensation, product growth, innovation. Amazon, Go to company page This coincides with their level of technical expertise, since TPMs will be more . Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics. A good product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently. I talked to a lot of people in both roles at different companies before ultimately joining the APM program at Google, which was a phenomenal experience. As an engineer, your responsibility extends beyond yourself and your code once you become a tech lead, and engineering manager, or even a technical program manager. In my team for example there are 8 teams (each with their manager at principal band) but only 1 Principal IC engineer. Makes sense thanks! Partner with us to give your students interview prep. But I'm pretty sure going to get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if I get the offer. Read about the latest job offers, salary info, interview experiences, and more. But are there any more business oriented PMs? I'm talking about TAS (transaction advisory, i.e. In this video, Ex-G. or Want to Sign up with your social account? The existence of confounders is an important . And despite having good intentions, you get in each other's way. 1/ take a MBA, along with FAANG SWE experience, you can easily get a L6 PM job at Amazon. I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. The engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well as feature-level details. Join millions of verified employees at the largest tech companies. Skills. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills. This gives you more room to shape the role. Brian. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. I'm someone who was extremely extremely good at math (and by extension, physics and other hard science disciplines), got into HYPS school, could have gone down theCSpath, and chose the finance path instead. Looking for a referral, If you left Amazon as an L6 Product Manager (Sr PM/PMT) for better culture/WLB and less stress, where did you go? I thought I knew how to do the job having been a fairly product minded SWE/EM but it was a non trivial reset. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. TC 185k, Hi all, I just graduated from a top MBA program in the U.S. and I am looking for pm roles in the states. They also differ in their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking. Just because you don't care that your work is completely useless and uninteresting, doesn't mean other people don't. I interviewed with Google for a L7 Product Management team manager role and also got team matched. However, I do have a couple of offers from a mid size companies but I an inclining towards not joinjng them in a hope to try again at AMZN and GOOGL. Get free interview guides, insider tips, and courses. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. If you find you lose something in translation, address it quickly. 101 Investment Banking Interview Questions, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 3rd+ Year Analyst, Certified Hedge Fund Professional - Portfolio Manager, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 2nd Year Analyst, Certified Investment Banking Professional - Vice President, Certified Private Equity Professional - Partner, Certified Consulting Professional - 3rd+ Year Associate, Certified Research Professional - 2nd Year Associate, Financial Modeling & Valuation 2-Day Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat April 1st - Only 15 Seats, Excel Master 4-Hour Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat May 20th - Only 15 Seats. At Meta for example its about 85% of SWE at the same band. Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. Bravo ! Look at the actual entrepreneurs that built this country- the industrialists and tycoons of the roaring 20s that would have eaten mark zuckerberg for breakfast. Ben Golden. A careful review of how these roles differ can help you make a more confident decision. 100%. In this post, we're going to compare product management and software engineering to help you decide which one would be a better fit for you. Pay is similar. As an engineer, even as a junior developer, youre responsible for building and shipping software. And by how much.500k/15+ yoe#productmanagement #productmanagersalary, Go to company page How easy/ hard is it. But some people and companies insist on drawing a difference. It can push you to get better. Good benefitsI don't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is. I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. You can always transition between the two roles later. below post says non-engineering will be cut. 90th percentile outcomes better for MBA, 99.999th percentile better for CS. Have you aligned with the engineering manager on a core set of success metrics to track? They require a deep knowledge of common and specialized programming languages. It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Aha! Hey Blinders, Now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers with 6+ years to help build the next economic paradigm. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Dropbox, ICs struggle to move up at staff or senior. Depends on companies tbh. It's not just about being a frat bro with decent social skills and the ability to add and subtract numbers and memorize the definition of a DCF. Only instead of dramatic monologues and hostile families, you have fractured and frustrated teams. You're absolutely right. Product Manager New York City Area. Are you a new marketing manager? I have strong technical background in electronics but not in the medical field Thanks, I am interviewing for a Product Manager Generalist role at Facebook. Microsoft, Go to company page The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. #pm #product #productmanage, I am currently a Glorified secretary. Check out these suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days. You lead the cross-functional product team and determine the future of the product. A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. Eng, Go to company page 1) get an offer with better immediate compensation, e.g. Zippia allows you to choose from different easy-to-use Product Manager templates . Thanks!#pm #pm #productmanager #apple, Hey everyone. If you have effectively communicated business and customer needs, trust that your counterpart will lead the technical direction. Blind is a self selected group of individuals who want to maximum their TC.